Talk:Watchmen (TV series) - Misplaced Pages

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The Television Critics Association panel 2019 Damon Lindelof. Add info to Article ?

Damon Lindelof revealed lots of huge details on Watchmen's Television Critics Association panel.

1) Much of Lindelof's inspiration for Watchmen came from reading the works of Ta-Nehisi Coates and learning about Black Wall Street and the Tulsa race riots of 1921. In fact, Watchmen takes place in Tulsa, Oklahoma in the Watchmen alternate universe's version of 2019.

2) Nixon ended up being president until his death in 1988, who was then succeeded by Gerald Ford. In 92, Ford lost the election to Robert Redford, who's still president in 2019. 2019 of Watchmen is a world where cops wear masks, Ozymandias is in seclusion, a very liberal Robert Redford is the longest serving POTUS ever, there are no Internet or smartphones and a killer cult has grown up around the dead Rorschach. . 3) There’s also a white supremacist group that calls themselves “The Seventh Calvary” running around in Rorschach masks. Lindelof said that gets at the one of the main themes of his series: Appropriation. “We understand that we’re appropriating the original ‘Watchmen.’ Characters in this show are appropriating iconic ideas like the Rorschach mask,” he continued. “The idea that the Seventh Cavalry, who seem to be presenting a white supremacist ideology in the pilot, have appropriated Rorschach based on his writings, as a white supremacist. Rorschach is dead, he’s not around to basically say, ‘You got it all wrong.'”.

4) “We reexplore the past but it’s canon,” he says. “Everything that happened in those 12 issues could not be messed with. We were married to it. There is no rebooting it.

5) White supremacy is at the forefront of the story. “What in 2019 is the equivalent of the nuclear standoff between the Americans and the Russians?” Lindelof posited. “It is race and the police. ... There are no easy answers and grandiose solutions. In a traditional superhero movie, superheroes fight the aliens. There’s no defeating white supremacy. It’s not going away.”

6) “We’ve created a world that does not have an internet,” Lindelof said. “People do not have smart phones. Even though it’s set in 2019, the Redford administration saw the writing on the wall and stepped in to make sure we could not troll each other.”

7) The series will feature Regina King’s first on-screen sex scene.

8) “Whether or not the show feels like its ‘Watchmen’ is in the eye of the beholder,” he said Wednesday during the show’s panel at the Television Critics Association press tour. “Some people who have an intense relationship with the source material might say, ‘This feels like ‘Watchmen’ to me,’ others might say, ‘this is an aberration and I wish it never existed.'”

9) Lindelof also described going through “an intense period of terror of f-king it up” when he was crafting the idea for the show. “I had an intense amount of respect for this but at the same time I feel like that respect could impair me from doing my job… I had to separate myself a little bit from this incredible reverence, because if I was too reverent, I wouldn’t be able to do anything that was risky.”

10) “Alan Moore is a genius. In my opinion, the greatest writer in the comic medium and maybe one of the greatest writers of all time. He’s made it very clear that he doesn’t want to have any affiliation or association with ‘Watchmen’ ongoing and that we not use his name to get people to watch it, which I want to respect,” Lindelof said. “I have made personal overtures to connect with him and explain to him a little bit of what we were doing and he made it clear that he didn’t want that to happen and I want to respect that as well.”

11) Damon Lindelof- “I do feel like the spirit of Alan Moore is a punk rock spirit, a rebellious spirit, and that if you would tell Alan Moore, a teenage Moore in ’85 or ’86, ‘You’re not allowed to do this because Superman’s creator or Swamp Thing’s creator doesn’t want you to do it,’ he would say, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.’ So I’m channeling the spirit of Alan Moore to tell Alan Moore, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.'”

12) Lindelof is asking that critics/viewers give Watchmen the entire season before assessing its approach to race, police and how different it is from the source material.

Add info to Article ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brownshoes22 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

References

Setting

The Watchmen TV Series takes place in Tulsa, Oklahoma in the Watchmen alternate universe's of 2019; one with no Internet or smartphones and Robert Redford is the longest serving President of the United States starting in 1992, 34 years after the comic book series ends. After white supremacist group that calls themselves “The Seventh Calvary” wearing home made Rorschach masks do simultaneous attacks on the houses of polices, all the members of the Police department start wearing masks. Brownshoes22 (talk) 01:05, 30 July 2019 (UTC) --Brownshoes22 (talk) 01:10, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Add to Article ?--Brownshoes22 (talk) 01:13, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

In this comment and the main article, there is reference to "The Seventh Calvary". Calvary (or Golgotha) is stated as the place where Jesus was crucified. Should this not be amended to "The Seventh Cavalry" - the correct spelling for mounted troops - (pending resolution of the Cavalry/Kavalry question)? Oberon3D (talk) 14:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Nearly all the sources talking of the episode today use "Cavalry", with some using the K variation. Until there's more clarity on the C vs K, I've switched it to "Cavalry". --Masem (t) 14:31, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

References

3-Column Format?

What's up with this? It's terribly difficult to read like that. Is there a purpose for this? I didn't want to change it just in case there was some reason that I don't know about. Cjmartin65 (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Nevermind. I couldn't stand it. I fixed the formatting. Cjmartin65 (talk) 00:04, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Separate episode articles

I am going to wait to judge coverage of episodes individually until after the next one (3rd) but I think there's a good likelihood each is individually notable, between episode reviews and production stuff (eg there's the THR article today on part of Lord's play + more.) --Masem (t) 03:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

I am tentatively agreeing with Masem. It seems each episode might turn out to be individually notable. Here's one review of the second episode , and one for its premiere episode . I think this series may have significance because it is centered on a central issue of our time, at least in the U.S. And this is accomplished by moving the story line ahead to 2019, along with flashbacks. Steve Quinn (talk) 06:04, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Here is some background material . It was released by the series creators or HBO or something like that. I lost the article I was reading that linked to it. The background material is on HBO's URL, so there is a connection of some kind. I will try to find that article again. As an aside, there seems to be a lot of RS available on the show itself. Steve Quinn (talk) 06:17, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Ep5 definitely had enough sourcing for it between production and reviews so I've started its article Little Fear of Lightning. The others probably can to at this point. Remember to keep plots on these pages to under 700 words. --Masem (t) 16:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

About starring cast order

According to MOS:TVCAST which states The cast listing should be ordered according to the original broadcast credits, with new cast members being added to the end of the list. Jean Smart should be at the bottom of the starring cast list because she didn't appeared and wasn’t credited until "She Was Killed by Space Junk" (episode 3). — YoungForever 14:18, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

That would be the correct interpretation of the MOSTV guideline for cast order. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 14:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Update: Hong Chau is now at the bottom of the starring cast list as she has appeared and is credited as part of the main cast on "If You Don't Like My Story, Write Your Own" (episode 4) and while Jean Smart is now second to last. — YoungForever 09:16, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Audience/User Ratings

This page says user/audience ratings can not be included yet the shows Dark and Chernobyl include user ratings on their pages as well as The Shawshank Redemption. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:981:C200:1230:2044:941E:6B42:C88 (talk) 20:41, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Can's speak to Dark or Chernobyl, but for Shawshank, it has been noted by reliable sources that the movie has dominated the user-voted #1 at IMDb for a long time. Thus, it is valid to provide that information given others have commented about it. In the case of Watchmen, the best we have on user reviewes are reliable sources talking about review bombing, so that can be included, but that's as far as that needs to be said. --Masem (t) 20:59, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Please read up MOS:TVRECEPTION and WP:UGC. — YoungForever 21:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

It seems obvious that the Rotten Tomatoes "Audience Score" for this show (now at 42 percent, as of November 12, 2019) cannot be included on the page for political reasons. I would not have guessed that Misplaced Pages would fall prey to censorship, "protecting" readers from the unpopular Audience Score of 42 percent. - Slowmusketeer (talk) 19:13, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Slowmusketeer: It's not about censorship. There are guidelines and policies on Misplaced Pages. Audience/User Ratings are not reliable because they are user-generated content. They are not professional reviewers. — YoungForever 19:41, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Audience/Critic ratings mean very little and do not affect the Nielsen ratings or a shows renewal/cancelation odds. But per WP:UGC user ratings cannot be added to the page. I really wish people would take the hint rather than getting into pointless discussions like on the Batwoman page. No one is censoring anything and no one really cares about what someones politics are on here. Guidelines are guidelines and must be followed. Esuka (talk) 19:57, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@YoungForever: I disagree. Everyone knows what the Audience Score is, and everyone knows that the "professional reviewers" are just people from the audience who apply to Rotten Tomatoes for that designation (of professional reviewer); the vast majority of those reviewers do not work as critics for newspapers. You or I could just as easily get that designation. Only including the Critic Consensus is misleading Misplaced Pages readers. - Slowmusketeer (talk) 20:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

We don't make the rules, we simply follow. If you want to see audience ratings included on the page I suggest you go about attempting to change the guidelines. That would result in a lengthy discussion I'm sure. Esuka (talk) 20:25, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Esuka: I have not read the Batwoman page. Audience and Critic ratings are estimates of popular opinion, and many people look at these to decide whether or not to watch a show or take these "scores" into account to estimate a show's quality. You are being dismissive and it is not convincing to me. - Slowmusketeer (talk) 20:11, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

No they really aren't. For example Mr. Robot is one of the most acclaimed shows on television but has been low rated for pretty much its entire run. There are 1000s of examples of very low rated but universally acclaimed shows on television. Take HBO, they have an entire library of beloved but low rated shows. Acclaim means nothing for ratings. Esuka (talk) 20:21, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

The problem with any site that allows user-submitted reviews or even just scores is that they can be gamed either way in part due to anonymity whereas the whole of professional reviewers are not going to game their own reviews in the same manner. Most RSes ignore user-generated scores and reviews because they give hardly anything of use for proper reception of a work. --Masem (t) 20:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Time to move Don Johnson to "Guest Star"?

I get that he was listed as a star and featured prominently in the trailer, but, may it please the court, it's becoming increasingly clear that that was an intentional hoax to make his sudden death near the end of the first episode more unexpected. - Immigrant laborer (talk) 04:01, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

If he was listed at any point in the starring cast, he stays there. We've seen this show plays with flashbacks, so he certainly can reappear in later episodes. --Masem (t) 04:11, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

And especially w/ ep 6's preview... --Masem (t) 16:40, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

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