Talk:Alex Jones - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Slatersteven (talk | contribs) at 12:59, 1 August 2020 (→Bias against Alex Jones in this article). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 12:59, 1 August 2020 by Slatersteven (talk | contribs) (→Bias against Alex Jones in this article)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Alex Jones article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18Auto-archiving period: 30 days

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Please consult the procedures and edit carefully.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

[REDACTED]

Alternative views Top‑importance

[REDACTED]	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion.Alternative viewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative viewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative viewsAlternative views
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United States Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.

United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Skepticism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Alex Jones. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Alex Jones at the Reference desk.

There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article, in a manner that does not comply with Misplaced Pages's policies. Editors are encouraged to use neutral mechanisms for requesting outside input (e.g. a "request for comment", a third opinion or other noticeboard post, or neutral criteria: "pinging all editors who have edited this page in the last 48 hours"). If someone has asked you to provide your opinion here, examine the arguments, not the editors who have made them. Reminder: disputes are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

Template:Vital article

view · edit Frequently asked questions

To view an answer, click the link to the right of the question.

Q1: Why is Alex Jones described as a far-right conspiracy theorist? A1: The preponderance of reliable sources describes him as this.

"The case of Mr. Jones and Infowars is tricky for many politicians and figures on the right. While many dislike the idea of tech companies censoring political speech, and Infowars leans far right, Mr. Jones regularly spreads lies, conspiracy theories and inflammatory attacks against political enemies." ----The New York Times

"Kaiser, the Harvard researcher, said that Jones was a far-right 'beacon' -- a sort of gateway who could bring conservatives looking for right-wing media into the extreme fringes via YouTube's recommendations." --CNBC

"Twitter banned far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his website InfoWars from its platform Thursday afternoon" --CNN

"Twitter announced Thursday that it had banned the accounts of conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his far-right media company Infowars" --NBC News

"Facebook today removed 22 pages associated with far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones" --The Verge

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 March 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Template:Findsourcesnotice

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Alex Jones article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18Auto-archiving period: 30 days

"Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined. The discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 29#Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm _Bacon 23:08, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

"Far-right"

This is the wrong term for Alex Jones' political views. I'm pretty sure you mean "Libertarian" StongOx1745 (talk) 16:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Read the FAQ please. Zero Serenity 16:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I did, but you can't seem to fix it. Your "reliable" sources don't seem to be reliable at all considering that the man himself (Alex Jones) said he's libertarian. StongOx1745 (talk) 16:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

We use reliable sources, not self-descriptions. O3000 (talk) 17:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I mean, we can certainly have this discussion. But you need to do it on the correct terms. You need reliable secondary sources that describe him as libertarian as opposed to far-right. He can be both, and not all libertarians are right. But this isn't something we discuss amongst ourselves and not something where we "take his word" for it. Everything on Misplaced Pages lives and dies according to the sources. GMG 19:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Bias against Alex Jones in this article

Far-right was bad enough but now Jones has suddenly acquired a new title "political extremist". This kind of emotive political rhetoric is not appropriate for wikipedia. This is a topic of much debate, rather than something that can be assuredly put in the first descriptive sentence of Alex Jones'[REDACTED] article.

Alex Jones is a very unusual character with a peculiar outlook on the world. He certainly leans right politically, but his views are quite idiosyncratic. They certainly do not align with typical far-right people or extremists who tend to be very closed minded and totalitarian.

Jones displays many signs of lateral thinking, divergent thinking and open association in his thought. This is NOT how a natural conservative thinks. This is explained quite well by psychologist Jordan Peterson in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq1i4enQVDE (albeit about Russell Brand in this case but is quite similar if you listen to Alex Jones speaking).

Direct quote (Dr Jordan B Peterson): "you are a very 'open' person, and you can tell because you think laterally. You have an idea, and this reminds you of a whole bunch of other ideas. And so you'll move laterally across ideas. A more conservative person will stay within the category. Your conversational style is marked by divergences. That is actually called divergent thinking, its a hall mark of creativity."

This explains why Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist; because he is a very 'open' person (open to unusual thoughts and information).

Tarring him with the labels "far right" and "political extremist" are designed to defame him because these phrases hold many negative connotations. This is just cheap tactics from people who do not understand him and do not want to because they do not like his support for Republican ideals. Gd123lbp (talk) 23:17, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

As Guy Macon says over at Talk:InfoWars#Let's_review,_shall_we?:

Let's review for our newly-arrived Infowars/Newswars/Prison Planet minions, shall we? Alex Jones claims that the US government kidnaps children and makes them slaves at our martian colony, that kids are only pretending to get shot at school and their parents are only pretending to grieve, that Michelle Obama is really a man, that Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame was killed to boost DVD sales, that the coming New World Order is a demonic high-tech tyranny formed by satanist elites who are using selective breeding to create a supreme race, that tap water is turning frogs gay, that Temple of Baal arches will be erected in multiple cities around the world Real Soon Now, that the Democratic party runs a pedophile ring through pizza shops, that the US government commits acts of terrorism against its own citizens, that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are literally demons from hell, that the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami were a government plot, that Obama wanted to detonate a nuclear bomb in Charleston, South Carolina, that FEMA runs concentration camps... Sounds legit to me!

@Gd123lbp: To compare Alex Jones with Russell Brand without a source that explicitly makes that connection (aside from the intellectually dishonest WP:SYNTH issues) borders on a BLP violation against Brand. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I think Guy Macon makes my point quite nicely about Alex Jones holding very idiosyncratic views that are not typical of the far right or extremists. Or even of the republican party (unless you can point out to me which of those things quoted is a republican value!) At no point have I defended any specific thing Alex Jones has said or InfoWars so that is just irrelevant. I was making a personal observation, not from a source, just watch any video of Alex Jones talking, you'll notice the same speech patterns and divergent thought just like Russell Brand. "far right" and "Political extremist" are certainly BLP violations against Jones! Gd123lbp (talk) 23:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

No true Scotsman. At any rate, we cannot substitute our judgement for the sources, and there is no shortage of sources that call Jones an extremist: WGBH. - MrOllie (talk)

Gd123lbp, I have a serious question that I have always wanted someone who doesn't like our coverage of Jones to answer. In the above conversation MrOllie used the term WP:SYNTH. Notice how it is a link? Yet you appear to not bothered clicking the link or reading the page that the link leads to. It can't be that you don't know what a clickable link is; you inserted a link on your post. So why am I seeing responses that appear to show that you have never read Misplaced Pages:No original research#Synthesis of published material? Is there some way that simply putting "WP:SYNTH" in a reply isn't reaching you? Is there some way we can do better? --Guy Macon (talk) 00:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

OK, do you believe that NASA is shipping children to a slave colony on Mars, that lizard people control the government, and that the Democrat party (and a pizza restaurant) is a front for satanic child molesters? Or , do you think these are not extremist -- but normal Republican ideals? O3000 (talk) 00:19, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I saw Jordan Peterson, a YouTube link, and Russell Brand and then I questioned whether I should keep reading. You need a much better argument, one that relates to Misplaced Pages’s content policies in some way, to even remotely start convincing people. Aside from that, I’m not sure calling Alex Jones the peak of lateral thinking and human enlightenment would be the hill I‘d want to die on if I were you. I mean, his defence in a legal suit against him was that he was playing “a character”. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I read the link and have already responded regarding it. Also, what do you mean by "our" coverage of Alex Jones? Are you in a group of people with an agenda? Gd123lbp (talk) 00:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Wow, go read WP:AGF until you understand what's wrong with that question. That sort of paranoid assumption doesn't combine well with trying to whitewash this article. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:29, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Got it. Not going to get a straight answer from Gd123lbp. A shame, really; it is possible for people who strongly disagree with each other to have a friendly and open conversation about why they believe what they believe.

Alex Jones describes himself as "Libertarian" but there is a good reason why reliable sources describe him as "far-right" instead. Conspiracy theorists such as Alex Jones believe that the government is dishonest, all-powerful, and fiendishly clever. Libertarians generally believe that the government dishonest, incompetent, and dumber than a bag of rocks that the other rocks make fun of for being so stupid.

Alex Jones' conspiracy theories requires that a large number of individuals coordinate to uphold a common lie, with nobody spilling the beans and no leaked evidence to uncover the truth. This is despite the overwhelming financial incentive for news outlets to uncover and expose government conspiracies. Libertarian note that the federal government isn't even able to keep the president's (pick your favorite) sexual activities secret. Libertarianism is not about screaming at the audience about gay frogs. Libertarianism is a political philosophy concerning the proper use of government force, with a serious and lengthy intellectual pedigree. You can disagree with Libertarians -- many do -- but they are clearly not crazy or putting on an act for ratings. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

You'll do better by giving that a read as well judging by how extremely patronising you have been. Gd123lbp (talk) 00:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Guy Macon - If Jones is "crazy or putting on an act for ratings" then it is incorrect to call him a genuine far right person or political extremist who seriously holds those political views. Gd123lbp (talk) 00:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gd123lbp: I'm assuming you're here in good faith, I just think you're misguided and wrong. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyone who doesn't think that Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden are "putting on an act for ratings" simply isn't paying attention. --Guy Macon (talk) 12:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

WE go with what RS say, not what we think (yes by the way I think it is an act, but I am not an RS).Slatersteven (talk) 12:52, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

FYI the OP is someone that thinks someone fired for a racist outburst is a "victim". FDW777 (talk) 12:56, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

So?Slatersteven (talk) 12:59, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Categories: