Talk:Portuguese Communist Party

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Portuguese Communist Party was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 22, 2005	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
December 30, 2005	Good article nominee	Listed
December 31, 2005	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
March 4, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
March 21, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
December 10, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

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Socialism Mid‑importance

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Find correct name The airport is not listed as João Paulo II anywhere. The airport's own website calls itself simply Ponta Delgada, and has no mention of João Paulo.

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Politics: Political parties

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Salgado Zenha vs Ângelo Veloso

Joaopais, the candidature of Veloso, that had been accepted by the Constitutional Court, was removed shortly before the election after an agreement between the PCP, the PRD and Zenha. So, the PCP supported Zenha at the day of the election, and that's shown in the election article as Zenha had the majority in Beja, Évora and Setúbal, the communist strongholds. The communists voted for Zenha, so, the Party's candidate was Zenha. And one more thing, I wrote the article of the election myself, I don't need to refer to it. Regards! Afonso Silva 16:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I accept your explanation. But a reference to Ângelo Veloso would be good, do you agree? After all he's candidature was accepted by the CC. Thanks. Gameiro 16:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

That reference was already present in the Notes below the results table. Afonso Silva 18:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Noone killed in Moscow?

Is the PCP the only party not persecuted during the Purge? Xx236 13:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Portuguese Communist Party/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article has several issues that will need to be resolved in order for it to retain its good article status. Issues include but are not limited to:

Insufficient references – most of the article's information is missing inline citations
Remove the external links in the article's body per WP:EL
per WP:LAYOUT "See also" goes before "References" and "Notes"

Please keep this page updated with the article's status. Thanks! Gary King (talk) 17:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Issues have not been resolved, therefore this article has been delisted. Gary King (talk) 18:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

This doesn't mention 25 de Novembro

Like it never happened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.203.58.101 (talk) 21:52, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Being a coup against organized by the conservative wing of MFA to counter the party itself it should be mentioned, I agree. Why don't you develop the history section? 2.81.162.192 (talk) 13:19, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposal to either change the position or remove it

I think the political position for this party should either be changed or removed. For a long time the political position had stood in the info box as "left-wing to far-left". However this has recently been changed to just left-wing by one editor. I would argue the party is far-left, at the very least to a certain degree. This is due to its ideological basis. Communist and Marxist-Leninist parties are virtually always far-left, due to the extreme nature of these combined ideological stances and the belief in the "dictatorship of the proletariat". Currently neither position has been evidenced, nor discussed, nor received consensus for this party and some sort of discussion should have happened here before changing a long standing position. I have tried to revert things to the way they were, until there had been proper discussion and I offered to use talk here, only to have my edits constantly reverted. I see no reason why this should have been changed. Only one editors perspective was given for the change, no evidence, nor consensus. A change such as this should have been given evidence and / or discussion before being changed. If a position cannot be agreed upon I would opt that it be removed from the info box of this page. Helper201 (talk) 11:56, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

I think your comment above underscores how subjective this is. First of all, using "x to y" is meaningless, 'Far-left' and 'Left' are not mutually exclusive, 'far left' is covered by 'left'. What we see across many wiki articles is difficulty to agree on a position, since different editors see the political spectrum differently. I vote for the removal of 'position' across all infoboxes. --Soman (talk) 15:10, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Personally I would opt to keep positions as they can usually be well cited, although I understand where you are coming from. Regardless that is a matter for a wider page regarding politics on Misplaced Pages. I am merely putting forward that this be returned to the way it had long stood. This way it keeps two positions, of which I'd assume virtually everyone would agree it meets the criteria for at least one of the two, if not both. Its usually the case that if someone wants to make a significant change to what has long stood, they either provide evidence or engage in discussion first, of which neither has been done here. On the other hand if there is still no consensus I would opt for the removal of the position, for this page. Helper201 (talk) 15:22, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

In case of no consensus, you should keep it. Also, this discussion should go on for a bit longer. --B.Lameira (talk) 08:20, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

And the PCP no longer advocates for the dictatorship of the proletariat, you seem to be a little biased towards leftist parties with a bit of subjective analysis. You should classify the Left Bloc as "far-left" in that case, simply because it has Trotskyists who were part of the PSR prior to its foundation. --B.Lameira (talk) 08:23, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, if there is no consensus things should be kept as they are, and may I remind you that you are the one that initially made the change that lead to this discussion. Therefore it should change back to the way it stood for a long time before you recently changed it (which was left-wing to far-left). You are the one that made the change, you should have discussed it first. Since there was disagreement I reverted to a more neutral state by not placing either. To simply go and revert is very unhelpful and your basically edit warring now. Since you reverted before even discussing here. Helper201 (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Or maybe no one really paid attention to it, I want this subject to not be superficially debated. --B.Lameira (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

That's your perspective, not fact. However I respect the proposition of the matter being discussed. Either way, as you yourself have acknowledged, discussion should have took place before you made the initial change. Therefore it should either be reverted back to the way it was, or we can opt for the neutral option of removing it entirely until there has been consensus and evidence provided. Helper201 (talk) 10:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

No, you were the one who decided to make the initial change, do not be manipulative. Soman only stopped reverting because the user in question did not want to engage in a edit war. I would say you are being quite disruptive. In matter of fact, I do not hear this party being called "far-left" unless in a pejorative use and context. --B.Lameira (talk) 18:41, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

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The section on quotes

The section on quotes should be removed immediately. Misplaced Pages should never uses quotes as the way BunnyHopp typed things, the current quotes gives a soapbox for the party, this is against Misplaced Pages's terms on a NPOV, BunnyHopp there is way to twist this it will be removed. It doesn't constitute a NPOV. However please state your rational for keeping it which it won't because the way it is constituted can and will never be allowed on Misplaced Pages. Vallee01 (talk) 20:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

It's WP:NPOV. Uncontested and uncontroversial factual assertions made by reliable sources, the party itself being one, should be stated as Misplaced Pages's voice. In this case, the facts they point out is what the ideologies of the party are - being thus unconstested. I only to hear the final concerns of the colleagues over at Marxism-leninism to remove the quotes here - it will be sourced in the page of the ideology itself. BunnyyHop (talk) 22:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Neutrality

As stated by other editors, the insentient use of quotes completely fails at making this article have a neutral POV. The way in which this article uses quotes gives a soapbox for Portuguese Communist Party. BunnyyHop's edits are all giving a soapbox to the Portuguese Communist Party and is therefor unacceptable. Vallee01 (talk) 23:32, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

No other editors have expressed themselves against this except you, who is making very disruptive edits, removing years-old information and replacing it with gibberish "the synthesis of nationalism and state communism", which is completely absurd, as well as replacing PCP with PGC(!!), again - all of this without any sources. We must have neutral editing, it would be a violation of NPOV if framed what the party defines itself as in Misplaced Pages's voice. Using this as a third voice, in this case the voice of the party, is neutral editing. I could add news sites to back that up instead of using only primary sources. But use the talk page before making any edit to the lead of the article.

You seem to be equivocated on what "Neutrality" means. According to the guidelines, this is a golden rule: assert facts, including facts about opinions, but don't assert opinions themselves. A simple search returns 40 400 results BunnyyHop (talk) 17:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

BunnyyHop if the neutrality is disputed, it is disputed it is against the rules to remove it. There are currently two involved in this discussion and you have already been blocked on Portuguese Misplaced Pages. Don't edit war but feel free to edit the article or revert my changes, however you can not remove the neutrality disputed. It is disputed. You are giving a soapbox to the PCP you can't state outright state that the PCP is a "vanguardism role in the service of the class interests of the workers, of the process of social transformation, for the revolutionary overcoming of capitalism." So just use a quote to a self published source. Also googles definition has nothing to do with Misplaced Pages. What you just stated was complete waffle. See WP:NEUTRALITY for the official guide, nonsense on what a google search means doesn't mean anything. Vallee01 (talk) 22:43, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Vallee01 is clearly disruptive in his/her edits. It is not NPOV to state that PCP considers itself as a vanguard party of the working class. The edits is ill written, confusing and misleading (for example claiming that PCP considers itself as a 'dictotoral vanguard' or that the party itself would be a synthesis, whatever that means...). --Soman (talk) 22:48, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Soman the use of quotes completely takes away neutrality from the article if we look at other articles like Ghandi, quotes are only used in a a sparring manner and only used when needed. What does the quotes add to the article that simple phrasing couldn't be done by simply phrasing it? Absolutely nothing, the entire article breaks the rules of quotes, by giving a soapbox to the party. This seems biased and an unnecessary inclusion to me, this quote does not need to be in the article and is simply fluff. The same idea can be given with far less bias and also far less words with simply, paraphrasing the statement of the PCP. The quote in other words can be described with far less words and far less bias by simply paraphrasing things. The issue with quotes is that when you are using quotes you are putting up a soapbox for people to express there ideas and Misplaced Pages is a neutral space. I agree that the edit was subpar but that doesn't take away from the fact this article can't be considered neutral. The unexplained removal of sections stating the PCP failures after the collapse of the eastern bloc also doesn't fit a NPOV. Vallee01 (talk) 23:05, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm struggling to make sense of the comment. What 'rule of quotes' are you talking about? The linked essay doesn't back up your argument. --Soman (talk) 23:14, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Vallee01, I'm not blocked on the Portuguese Misplaced Pages.

"outright state" I did not "outright state" those things. According to the party is something stated in a lot of articles, as shown by the Google Search. This is just to make you understand what neutral is and isn't. Jobbik, for example, has the following in the lead: "According to the party's "Manifesto on the Guidelines of a Future Government", Jobbik represents all Hungarian citizens and people and aims to build a modern national identity, while rejecting the chauvinism of the 20th century." In this case, according to the political thesis of the party, it maintains its "vanguard role in the service of the class interests of the workers, of the process of social transformation, for the revolutionary overcoming of capitalism". To say this is a soapbox is to not understand what a soapbox is. It's the official party line and it should be stated in the lead. And this is not something redundant - vanguardism and revolution are central aspects to understading the party line. It's in quotes because it's not something neutral or factual but their opinion - which is in quotes and written in an impartial tone, it's an opinion stated as an opinion and not as fact. If it was stated as a fact - then we would have a problem. It's right there on the WP:NPOV article, and like Soman, I struggle to see where the problem is. BunnyyHop (talk) 23:28, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Soman When you allow quotes to be used in this way, you give a platform to the PCP. My ultimate point is as follows, the quote is not needed. It simply gives a microphone to the PCP. The quotes aren't needed, you could easily maintain the same idea using neutral words. "The PCP claims to be a synthesis of Marxist-Leninism and also claims to be patriotic." The issue with the quote is that it is directly supporting the PCP. The best way to change the article would be get rid of the quotes and replace with info detailing the PCP.

"Quotations that present rhetorical language in place of the neutral, dispassionate tone preferred for encyclopedias can be an underhand method of inserting a non-neutral treatment of a controversial subject into Misplaced Pages articles; be very careful. We encourage the inclusion and use of all reliable sources—including biased ones—but biased and point-of-view (POV) content must be reliably sourced and POV language must be quoted and attributed, rather than stated in Misplaced Pages's voice. Our neutral point of view (NPOV) policy requires editors to avoid biasing content in a direction that is different from that of the original source, whether by censorship, omission, neutralization/neutering or overemphasis."

The wording the PCP is using is itself not neutral, and doesn't serve any use other then to allow a POV to be pushed into the article.

Quotes should be used sparingly and only used when necessary. This article has an entire paragraph dedicated to quotes. Quotes as an example for Aristotle stating "All I know is I know nothing!" or George Orwell stating "2+2=5." Using quotes in favor of actual wording takes away Misplaced Pages's neutrality and allows any pot head to state whatever they would like. See the issue? If something can be stated without the need of quotes and nothing is lost don't use a quote it simply gives a soapbox and makes it impossible for things to be written in an encyclopedic format. don't overuse quotes. I agree that wording stating the PCP supports vanguardism is acceptable. However it can be stated more neutrally and it doesn't need quotes.

BunnyyHop You were blocked two times, and got unblocked two day ago. You were blocked for biased editing on the pages Portuguese Dictatorship of the proletariat, as well as well the Portuguese version of the Portuguese Communist Party (this very article.) You were warned 4 times before you got blocked. You also were warned twice for edit warring on the page Marxist-Leninism twice.

You appear to have an extreme close connection the article as you are a member of the Portuguese Communist Party and other Portuguese communist parties. As stated on your talk page "This user supports the Portuguese Communist Party." You also are a Marxist-Leninist "This user is a Marxist-Leninist." You support and seem to admire Álvaro Cunhal a Marxist-Leninist politician. The fact you have such a close connection the article with you being a member of the PCP, makes you impossible to be a neutral source on this article. You have a conflict of interest. You keep editing pages relating to Marxist-Leninism always removing negative elements of Marxist-Leninism. I myself am a anarchist and build myself of anti-authoritarianism, anti-capitalism and radical equality and describe myself as leaning left wing. However you are clearly not here to build an encyclopedia. Vallee01 (talk) 02:52, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Vallee01, there is a total of three small quotes in a paragraph describing the party and its goals. Saying this is "a paragraph full of quotes" is absurd.

According to the same quotes article: "While quotations are an indispensable part of Misplaced Pages, try not to overuse them"; "biased statements of opinion can only be presented with attribution".

Quotes here are used to comply with WP:NPOV, only quoted on the segments where the party describes their goals and motives. What you propose is completely violating WP:NOR.

"you give a platform to the PCP" "The issue with the quote is that it is directly supporting the PCP." "It simply gives a microphone to the PCP" - This is coming from the same guy who accuses me of "clearly not here to build an encyclopedia", but I'm not going down this path. BunnyyHop (talk) 02:58, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

"Not using quotes is original research." Original research is when someone does something you don't like the more they don't do what you want the more original research it is. A dedicated PCP member cannot be expected to write an encyclopedic article about the PCPC. You don't need a quote to state the PCP stated goals. It's most certainly not necessary. That's complete waffle and not Misplaced Pages's policies, amigo. Vallee01 (talk) 03:07, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not a PCP member. If you have no further objections other than your POV, please remove the "neutrality template" from the page. NPOV means neutral editing, not neutral content. To have an article about a party that fails to mention its goals is not being an encyclopaedia. --BunnyyHop (talk) 03:42, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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