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DOB source

@Coemgenus: What's the source for adding October 28 to her DoB? The inline source only says 1957. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:23, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I have a source on Ancestry.com, but I was reluctant to list it because it uses her former name, which I've seen people get pushback for on here before. It's here. --Coemgenus (talk) 22:25, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

@Coemgenus: Without a reliable, non-primary source, we shouldn't use Ancestry.com as a source per WP:BLPPRIMARY. See WP:ANCESTRY.COM. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

OK, if you want to revert me, it's fine with me. I won't add it again. --Coemgenus (talk) 22:30, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

@GorillaWarfare: Just checking, would this be an appropriate source for her date of birth? It's from Q-Notes. DanCherek (talk) 23:43, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I was briefly concerned when I saw the section of the Q-Notes article titled "Developments, controversies and notoriety", but from what I can tell that rather alarming section title is based only on the fact that "Chris Crain, former editor of The Washington Blade criticized Q-Notes coverage as it did not include information that the interviews had been conducted via email." How bizarre... Anyway, yeah, that seems reasonably reliable to me and isn't a primary source like Ancestry.com. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:05, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect words

In the personal history, Dr. Levine had a Bas Mitzvah, not a Bar Mitzvah. Bar Mitzvah is for boys. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C:C000:2290:F160:2426:8FE1:B8E6 (talk) 00:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I think you'll find that they had a Bar Mitzvah. Zacwill (talk) 01:22, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Levine didn't transition until 2011, so it would have been a bar mitzvah. Ideally there would be a gender neutral form of the word we could use (per the guidance at MOS:GENDERID), but I'm not sure there is—I've seen "b'nai mitzvah" but I'm not sure that is widely used in the singular. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about Judaism could weigh in on the term. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:45, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I think Therequiembellishere's solution to remove it entirely actually makes a lot of sense, per their rationale in the edit summary. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:22, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

@Zacwill: Can you please join the discussion rather than warring over its inclusion? GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Comments from my edit summaries: "The sentence itself isn't sourced and tbqh, it doesn't add anything to include it either way. She went to Hebrew school and is Jewish is more than enough without having to wade into this bar/bat mitzvah debate. It goes without saying a Hebrew school kid was mitvahed. What are we gaining as a reader by making a thorny decision like this based on a source that has no authority on queer issues when we could just not include it? It is not core to the article and we gain everything we need by saying she's Jewish. This is fighting for fighting sake to include a gendered term. If she was a rabbi, we'd likely need a decision. She's not, we don't." Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:27, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

This is a completely manufactured issue, and to delete content from the article because of it is pathetic. Levine happily admits to having been "bar mitzvah-ed" in an interview (at p. 558), so it really can't be all that "thorny". Removing the passage from the article is preferable to rewriting it to falsely imply that Levine had a bat mitzvah, but both courses are deeply silly and deleterious (we don't "gain everything we need by saying she's Jewish", since it isn't a given that Jews have mitzvah ceremonies—many secular ones don't). Zacwill (talk) 02:48, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

It is not completely manufactured; avoiding confusing constructions about a woman having a bar mitzvah is in keeping with the advice at MOS:GENDERID. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Is it fundamental to Rachel Levine how she was mitzvahed? The answer is no. It's really not worth any of this. Also reading that portion of the interview as her speaking "happily" seems... suspect. Therequiembellishere (talk) 03:11, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

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Levine is originally from Wakefield, Massachusetts. She is Jewish, grew up attending Hebrew school, and had a bar mitzvah. She has recalled that while she was growing up, her rabbi did not talk about LGBTQ issues. She earned her high school diploma from Belmont Hill School in Belmont, Massachusetts.

link - https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/jewish-woman-welcomed-as-transgender-states-new-physician-general/

from article - "As a Jewish youth growing up in a Jewish household in Wakefield, Mass., having a bar mitzvah, attending Hebrew school and attending a conservative shul, Levine said the rabbi did not talk about LGBTQ issues. It was the late 1960s, early 1970s, she said, and things are only now getting better."

my explanation - I believe that the correct term for Rachel Levine's coming of age ceremony is Bar Mitzva, despite the fact that she now identifies and lives as a woman. It looks like the provided link leads to the[REDACTED] bar mitzvah entry. Perhaps I'm wrong. This is a question that Rachel Levine should answer. Natashaloewy (talk) 02:08, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Please do not use "lives as a woman" it's transphobic. She is a woman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.106.89 (talk) 21:15, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done Levine had a bar and not a bat mitzvah, as indicated by the source for this section of the article. Zacwill (talk) 02:18, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

See the section above this one as well. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

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ADDITIONS

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. The proposed edits are bullet points instead of prose, and if they are all added to the article, they may be giving undue weight to her personal experience with being transgender, rather than her notable accomplishments. Please discuss. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Dr. Levine’s recent appointment is historic not due to her notable accomplishments but due to her being transgender. The public viewing this article will be intrigued by both information on her accomplishments and personal experiences. While all should be encouraged to source information on her career as soon as possible, it would do a disservice to readers to exclude information that adds color to what supporters feel is a very exciting moment. (If it’s permitted - I would encourage editors to consider young queer/questioning folks and how they might benefit from knowing as much as possible about Dr. Levine overcoming adversity.) Thank you. - Iforget2020 (talk) 09:41, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Additions to: Early Life and Education

She said she lived with a "secret" from an early age and spent much of her life trying to fit in.

She said, "All I knew is I wanted to be a girl, or I was a girl, or female."

Additions to: Personal Life

Describing a point she reached in her 40s, she said, "Boy, did I have a midlife crisis." She began seeing a therapist and attending meetings of TransCentralPA

She said she threw herself into school work, then her career, in order to "compartmentalize" troubling feelings about her gender.

"What is comes down to is I decided to live my life with no secrets ... with no fear," she said.

Leaders at Penn State Hershey (Medical Center) and her patients were supportive after she transitioned to living as a female.

The reaction of her mother, a lawyer who was in her mid-80s: "I'm not sure I understand, but I love you unconditionally." LiveFreeWillyOrDie (talk) 03:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

References

1. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
2. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
3. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
4. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
5. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
6. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.
7. "Transgender physician general Dr. Rachel Levine addresses conference, reaches out to transgender youth". pennlive.com. Mar 20, 2015.

• I'd support adding a cite to the Pennlive interview, mentioning that she discussed her transition process in it. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:313A (talk) 22:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Openly transgender

Is that a thing? Or rather, is the opposite a thing--is there a recognized phenomenon of closeted transgender people like there are closeted gay people? If "openly transgender" isn't a generally recognized concept, it's probably best to drop the word "openly" from the article. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:313A (talk) 06:18, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

My understanding is that, yes, there is an exactly analogous situation where some trans people are closeted by living publicly as the gender they were assigned at birth and also a second situation where some trans people live as their actual gender without it being publicly known that this differs from the gender they were assigned at birth (i.e. "being stealth").

But... This does not mean that you are wrong to question the use of "openly". I don't like it and I similarly dislike "openly gay". I feel this can be appropriate in historical contexts where openness would be a rare exception but is best not used for contemporary people. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

My sense is that the context of use is important here. Since it is likely that some federal official, sometime has come out after ceasing to be a federal official, or has been de facto transgender without coming out before death (ahem), it would be inappropriately BOLD to state that Levine is the first senior federal official, ever, to be transgender. I'm not sure "openly" is the right word, but some such delimiter is necessary IMO. Newimpartial (talk) 14:43, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree that we need to be clear that she's the first transgender person who is out at the time of her nomination. Reliable sources have sometimes said "first transgender" in headlines, but within every article they caveat "first openly transgender" (WaPo, NYT, BBC, AP). Would it help if we linked "openly" to Coming out#Transgender identity and coming out or Transgender#Coming out? POLITANVM 16:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I do think we should include some term so as to avoid suggesting closeted transgender people are not actually transgender. "Openly" or "out" would seem to do it; "out" might be a bit better. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:30, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. Yes if the press is saying "openly" then I guess we should do the same, and linking the word to one of those "coming out" sections (I guess I better read them) sounds good. It hadn't occurred to me to think that a closeted transgender person isn't really transgender. I was thinking more of the mental revision required to take in the concept of closeted gender status existing at all. I'm introverted enough to not be bothered by this, but I can imagine a bunch of cable news heads exploding if someone comes out while or after holding a high enough office. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:313A (talk) 17:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC) Politanvm: I cleaned up a bunch of tracking parameters from your BBC link, hope that's ok. The linked page no longer mentions Levine either with or without the parameters, but I'll take your word for what it said before. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:313A (talk) 18:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done by Politanvm . GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

To expand, I've linked the first "openly" to Coming out#Transgender identity and coming out, since it's slightly more built out, and the next word already links to transgender. GorillaWarfare, I'm open to your suggestion of "out" instead of "openly," but I'm hesitant because there seems to be a clear consensus in sources for "openly transgender" and I don't want to dive too for into original research/synthesis and NPOV issues. I'm also not sure if "out" will be any clearer than "openly" for readers who are otherwise unfamiliar with LGBT topics. POLITANVM 18:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I think the wikilink is fine, and "openly" appears to be the common wording in the sourcing. GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Birth name

Even if her birth name is not necessarily relevant to her notability, it still should be included. It should at least be under early life and the infobox birth name. I also think we should put it in the lead in the same was as Caitlyn Jenner.Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 01:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

However, MOS:DEADNAME says that we should not do that. Newimpartial (talk) 01:27, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

@Iamreallygoodatcheckers: Caitlyn Jenner was extremely notable before she came out as transgender. Levine has primarily been notable since becoming Pennsylvania's Physician General, which postdates her coming out. MOS:DEADNAME is quite clear that In the case of a living transgender or non-binary person, the birth name should be included in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name... If such a subject was not notable under their former name, it usually should not be included in that or any other article, even if some reliable sourcing exists for it. GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:34, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I guess you all are right. Kind of an odd policy in my opinion, I feel it should at least be under birth name in the infobox, but I suppose not. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 04:18, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Iamreallygoodatcheckers, the proper venue to discuss the policy is Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Biography, not here. ― Tartan357  04:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes I understand that. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 04:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

FYI, people use intentional deadnaming to harass trans people. For this reason, most trans people don't want their deadnames to be well-known and, beyond that, it just makes sense to err on the side of privacy for marginalized minorities. Additionally, MOS:DEADNAME logically follows from the two rules at the top of WP:NOTE. --WhyBeNormal (talk) 15:46, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

it is literally a dead name. It no longer exists. She did not choose to be born as a boy. --AliceBzh (talk) 18:13, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

It is not a dead name. Rachel Levine would have performed recorded work under the name (REDACTED) Levine as a medical professional. In order to keep that link to previous work, her birth name should be given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎12.177.192.197 (talk) 19:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

You misunderstand what a deadname is. The Deadnaming article may help clarify what the term means, and the Manual of Style at WP:DEADNAME clarified that we do not use deadnames unless the subject was already notable under that name. Levine was not, so we do not include her former name. POLITANVM 19:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The point is, Rachel Levine performed medical work as (REDACTED) Levine. These are medical records that cant be destroyed. This article should still link Rachel Levine with work performed by (REDACTED) Levine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.177.192.197 (talk) 20:35, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

MOS:DEADNAME is quite clear that we should not. If you disagree, feel free to take it up at WT:MOSBIO, but until such point as it is changed, we will leave the name out. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I would also add that, now that this has been clearly explained, continuing to throw the deadname around on this talk page could be considered disruptive behaviour. I have redacted the deadname from the comments above as it is not necessary for anybody to mention what the deadname actually is, even when discussing whether it should be included. If the subject comes up again, and there is no reason why it should, please just say "her deadname" or "her birth name" and it will be perfectly clear what you are talking about. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Bill Clinton was not born as a Clinton. He had a different last name. His last name was changed while a teenager, way before he did professional work as a lawyer. Why do we know his birth last name Blythe? (Feel free to redact it.) It is a deadname. Scrub it from wikipedia! Another example is 38th President Gerald Ford. (Feel free to redact that too.) That was not all his birth name. Why is "Leslie Lynch King Jr." on his[REDACTED] page? Another one to scrub from wikipedia! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwakkles (talk • contribs) 23:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Sarcasm like this is unhelpful. Feel free to read the MOS page linked above, which is specific to transgender subjects, which Clinton and Ford are not. GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:39, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Thinly veiled politicization of an encyclopedia is even more unhelpful. Dgcaste (talk) 15:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

If you would like to suggest the guidelines on how we write about trans subjects be changed, WT:MOSBIO is thataway. But we are not going to contradict established consensus on a single article just because you think it is "politicization" to follow our own guidelines, which are by the way in line with how most reputable publications write about trans subjects. GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

First of all, there is no such thing as being apolitical. Ever. To assume otherwise is to assume that the status quo is unbiased and objective, which is not only false but is itself a deeply political assumption. Additionally, as User:GorillaWarfare noted above me, the WP guidlines and MOS is entirely congruent with the MOS of basically all reputable sources. And I encourage you to read all the above-linked sources. Especially WP:BLPPRIVACY and WP:DEADNAME. --WhyBeNormal (talk) 15:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm absolutely baffled why her birth name wouldn't be included. It's editorializing and *assuming* she is at least ashamed of her transition. This is an encyclopedia, where facts matter more than editors' presumptions/feelings. She's the United States Assistant Secretary for Health. The 'deadnaming' excuse assumes she is ashamed or that she seeks protection (which is inherently offensive). Editorializing, selecting which *facts* are appropriate, has no place on an encyclopedia. Not that it needs to be said, but she is *openly transgender*. Not including her birth name is the opposite the normalization of LGBTQ+ and at odds with the mission of an encyclopedia. Furthermore, policies that are at odds with the purpose of Misplaced Pages are inherently counterproductive. I can't think of worse policy for an encyclopedia than to have folks who think they know best censoring facts.
Opertinicy (talk) 00:05, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

You may be baffled, but MOS:DEADNAME has been the subject of repeated, widely participated RfCs on WT:MOSBIO (and widely announced elsewhere). You might want to read up on our policies and site-wide consensus before you opine. To cut to the chase, none of the gratuitous assumptions of the post you just made are relevant to the policy (e.g., "being ashamed", "facts versus feelings" or "seeking protection"). Newimpartial (talk) 23:53, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Opertinicy, I've mentioned this on my user talk page replies to you, but no amount of griping about how you feel about Misplaced Pages's guidelines on the former names of trans subjects will actually change anything unless you begin a formal discussion at WT:MOS. If you truly believe that a discussion to try to change the guideline would be fruitful, feel free to do so, though I would echo Newimpartial's points that the previous discussions received wide participation and so seem unlikely to change as dramatically as you're hoping.As for your guesses about how Levine feels about having her former name included, we could spend all day speculating, but in the end we don't know her preference on the inclusion of her name in this article, and so we go with the guideline. However your comment that the omission of birth names is "the opposite the normalization of LGBTQ+" is frankly not the general consensus of trans rights organizations; it might be your own opinion, but it is not a widespread one. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

It's bad policy and at odds with the mission statement of Misplaced Pages. What would satisfy you for her birthname to be included? A signed letter from her? What standard is being set here? She's a transgender champion whom I've met, and I think she would be annoyed that this is even a controversy. Opertinicy (talk) 00:15, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

If she would like to specifically request her birth name be included, sure, I imagine we'd respect that wish. Otherwise, you can begin a discussion to change the guideline, as I've already stated. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

The requirement would be for her to time travel back before her transition and make sure she meets Misplaced Pages Notability standards through her actions before announcing her gender and changing her name. That, or she could announce now that she prefers to use her pre-transition name when discussing events from before her transition, but almost nobody does that. And the cost of time travel is prohibitive, as I assume you know. Newimpartial (talk) 00:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Silly me, forgetting to mention the obvious third option... GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Redirects are cheap but time travel ... isn't. Newimpartial (talk) 00:49, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Early life and education

I don't think adding "her rabbi didn't talk about LGBTQ issues" is relevant at all. It's random and doesn't fit in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:201:19:C113:50C3:67D9:F77C:A544 (talk) 11:32, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

• I second this statement. 2001:1970:564B:4700:C434:D3E7:4D55:4838 (talk) 15:06, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done I agree that it's a bizarre thing to include. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 February 2021

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In early life, their should be reference to Dr. Levine's given birth name for record traceability. 12.177.192.197 (talk) 18:47, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Not happening. That's why this page is protected. ― Tartan357  18:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages policy is quite clear we should not do that:

In the case of a living transgender or non-binary person, the birth name should be included in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name... If such a subject was not notable under their former name, it usually should not be included in that or any other article, even if some reliable sourcing exists for it. (MOS:DEADNAME)

Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. (MOS:GENDERID)

GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 February 2021

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In an effort to fully educate, fully inform and to be completely honest, the individual's name, birth, etc. should be available to the public. 96.10.142.82 (talk) 15:51, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:59, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see the section directly above this one for an explanation of why we will not be including Levine's birth name in the article. GorillaWarfare (talk) 18:15, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Full protection request

Suggest full protection pending the added attention of her confirmation hearing. Therequiembellishere (talk) 23:40, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

@Therequiembellishere: unless there's significant non-constructive editing, I don't see why that's necessary. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 23:55, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I've already requested ECP at RfPP (after my same request was declined yesterday). I don't think a case can be made for full protection through her confirmation, but I do think ECP will help. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:01, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Add info from confirmation hearing?

During Levine's confirmation hearing with the Senate HELP Committee, Rand Paul compared transgender medicine to "genital mutilation" and accused her of supporting “surgical destruction of a minor’s genitalia." Paul was rebuked by committee chairman Patty Murray, as well as multiple House and Senate Democrats, who were to vote on the Equality Act that same day. Should this piece of information from her hearing be included? Seems notable given the significance of the occasion but I'd rather talk it out in case of WP:UNDUE. Phillip Samuel (talk) 05:54, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Phillip Samuel, very short comment before I go to work (a) I've removed the Daily Mail as a deprecated source (see WP:RSP) (b) is there some way we could rephrase to avoid repeating Paul's comments? Wham2001 (talk) 07:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Wham2001 (a) thanks for removing the deprecated source (b) Multiple congressional Democrats and outside public figures condemned his line of questioning, which gave it some notability. I want to convey that info, but I also see your POV, Paul's comments are maybe too strongly worded to quote on the WP article. Multiple news sources made a point of quoting him. Do you think putting the quotes on the page violates WP:UNDUE or another wp rule? Phillip Samuel (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Phillip Samuel, I understand your line of reasoning. My concern is that the cycle of "person says outrageous thing in public venue" -> "media report on outrageous thing" -> "Misplaced Pages includes outrageous thing in article" -> "Outrageous thing is immortalized in Misplaced Pages article long after media circus has moved on" is suboptimal, particularly on a BLP and in a context like this. I suppose the closest PAG to my objection is WP:NOTNEWS – Levine's confirmation hearing will be of sufficient lasting importance to her history to be mentioned in the article, but Paul's remarks will likely be forgotten amongst all the other similarly outrageous things he's said. Wham2001 (talk) 19:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Alright, so do you think it should be rephrased to something similar to "Rand Paul's line of questioning on transgender medicine was rebuked by committee chairman Paul Murray"? Phillip Samuel (talk) 19:46, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Just noting I wholeheartedly agree with Wham2001 here. Personally I think the info probably ought to be removed entirely, since it is not relevant to Levine's biography. Perhaps it is relevant to Paul's. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:19, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Upon further reflection, I agree. Best, Wham2001 (talk) 03:01, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Agree also. Perhaps this is relevant to Paul's biography. Don't see it relevant to Levine's. Nil Einne (talk) 17:46, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Transfered the info to Rand Paul's section per consensus. Phillip Samuel (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

1. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ralph-norman-rush-limbaugh-b1807699.html
2. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/25/rachel-levine-assistant-health-secretary-senate-confirmation-hearing-historic
3. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9300987/Rand-Paul-likens-gender-surgery-genital-mutilation-exchange-trans-nominee-HHS-deputy.html
4. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/25/us/rachel-levine.html
5. https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/politics/rachel-levine-vivek-murthy-senate-hearing/index.html

Indefinite EC protection over vandalism/edit conflict over gender/birthname?

This page has already been under AC or EC protection since multiple users seem intent on IP jumping or ignoring Misplaced Pages rules and talk consensus to vandalize the page on gender/birth name issues. There has already been the excuse "It's not being abusive to state a fact" w/o regard to talk consensus or WP policies. This page has already been under 2 periods of EC protection, and every time when the page loses AC or EC protection, confirmed and unconfirmed users immediately vandalize and edit war on this issue. When EC protection on this page expires a month from now, there is no doubt confirmed users are going to edit war again.

I feel as if as long as she is a prominent member of the Biden administration, this page will keep having to deal with this issue. Simply put, does this page need to have indefinite EC protection? Phillip Samuel (talk) 19:27, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I would certainly support it, as I agree the pattern is clear. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

strong support absolutely. Therequiembellishere (talk) 01:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

I would also support indefinite AC or EC (though not "full") protection; in my experience, this kind of vandalism doesn't go away. (I could give examples demonstrating this, if requested, but otherwise I'll avoid it so as not to send WP:BEANS attention to those other pages!) -sche (talk) 02:55, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Based on the article history and Levine's increased political prominence I agree that indefinite ECP is warranted. Wham2001 (talk) 08:42, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Very strong support as well. How do we go about getting indefinite protection in place? I'm not familiar with that process. --WhyBeNormal (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@WhyBeNormal: WP:RFPP. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:48, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh, simply add this page to that page to make a request? Ok, done. --WhyBeNormal (talk) 17:27, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

I rather support it to make fully protected. It is rather obvious due to fact edit warring between any users. I don't believe indefinite EC protection would be issue for this but temporary full protection would be necessary. 36.77.93.108 (talk) 20:38, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

We avoid fully protecting pages indefinitely, or even longterm (see WP:FULL). If extended confirmed editors continue to edit war over this, it would be better dealt with by user-level sanctions rather than page protection IMO. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:56, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 March 2021

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Request add "Dr. Levine instituted Department of Health policies which halted routine inspections and issued guidance for senior nursing facilities to admit and readmit patients who tested positive for COVID-19 as she removed her own mother from a nursing facility. This controversial and criticized policy has been blamed for a disproportionate majority of Covid-19 deaths throughout the early portion of the pandemic in Pennsylviania." to the "COVID-19 pandemic" section. PennLive was used as a reliable source in this section already, but all information is slanted toward showing only a positive light vs an accurate reflection of the reality of Dr. Levine's Pennsylvania state Covid-19 policy. 70.122.148.243 (talk) 18:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: The article is primarily about Russ Diamond's criticism of Levine, and this proposed addition is a summary of criticism and direct quotes from Diamond. We shouldn't write an individual's claims, opinions, and criticisms in WP:WikiVoice. POLITANVM 19:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

References

1. https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/another-pa-lawmaker-calls-for-resignation-of-health-secretary-dr-rachel-levine.html

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